Gripen vs Su-27 Flanker

[hammarö]

In the May issue of Air Forces Monthly, a magazine that everyone may not read, there is an article about an exercise where both the JAS 39 Gripen and Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker took part. Here is a summary.

In the exercise "Falcon Strike" in November 2015 was attended air units from the People's Republic of China and Thailand. Five Gripen flew this time without the support of the Saab 340 Erieye. Thailand had informed Saab in advance and they sent advisers and observers. The secrecy has been great about the exercise, but a Gripen pilot interviewed in the article, saying that the focus was not necessarily win in the air battles fought, but to evaluate the Gripen towards a system of Russian origin, and to see what the Su-27 had performance .

The Su-27 used were analog and outmoded in comparison with the Gripen. The Chinese pilots flew the aircraft hard, but had to themselves perform the calculations needed to get to the point, and it was to their disadvantage. Both sides won victories and had losses, but in a scenario Griffin won 4-0. Within the framework of the exchange got a Chinese pilot unexpected visits to Thailand and test fly the JAS 39th

From Swedish

http://forum.flyghistoria.org/viewtopic ... 6fd71d98be

[bruinmedic]

I would not interpret this as validation that one aircraft is better than the other. Or one Air Force is better than the other. Both sides will not fully demonstrate aircraft capabilities or tactics. The Thai's are bound to keep Western technology/tactics secret. Which is evident as they notified the Swedes, and the Swedes sent representatives.

As the article states, the purpose was not to win but to evaluate. Perhaps in the 4-0 engagement, the Chinese were better in getting the Thais to demonstrate capabilities. Thus the Chinese were better evaluators 4-0.

I find it interesting the Chinese brought "analog and outmoded" Su-27 to the exercise. I suspect they were mindful of SIGINT/ELINT that the West could gain from brining the latest and greatest aircraft.

[Le Addeur noir]

Some of the jets sent on this exercise were the Chinese built versions of the SU-27, the J-11.

A report of which airplanes were seen at Khorat last November is on the Thailand sub-forum.

In the AFM article, there was a statement about a ban on photography of these airplanes from outside the base. Not everything in the article in AFM was quite true...........

[hammarö]

Sensor capability of JAS 39 Gripen.

Power Point/Overhead pictures:

https://fmv.se/Global/Dokument/Om%20FMV ... 3%A5ga.pdf

[Alpha Kilo One]

What's the brand of the most important one? The hand camera I mean?!

[Alpha Kilo One]

The rest is marketing =censored= out of 2012.......

[hammarö]

The pictures of these hand cameras are world wide famous. Even used in Janes well known books about combat aircraft.
Even used by the aviation papers and large world wide news papers.

The Swedish air force were first taken pictures of new aircraft types and aircraft variants, such as Backfires and many more types.

The Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet have today an article about daring pictures from these handheld cameras from the cold war period.
Newer pictures are very often not published as secret pictures.

http://www.svd.se/unika-bilder-viggen-p ... med-sovjet

[Alpha Kilo One]

To be honest, I am not impressed. Dutch pictures, as well as those Russian ones, are as good as those Swedish ones. Maybe even better.
Besides that, that is all and only analogue.....
So again, what do they use now? Just Canon or Nikon I guess? So same quality we use ourselves......

[hammarö]

They could be better.

But the Swedish pictures were first. Often seen before years before the other pictures.
Sometimes even the only pictures taken.

Several pictures are still secret. Not seen by your cameras.

[hammarö]

Look at Janes aircraft and the Russian/Sovjet section and the pictures since the 1970s.

Very many of the pictures is sourced Swedish Air Force under the pictures. And the Air International, Air Force Monthly, and so on.

The Russians tested their new aircraft and variants first against the Swedish Air Force. Especially before NATO had bases in Baltic.
Some Russian aircraft ditched in dog fights. With close pictures taken by hand held cameras.

And Swedish intelligence had very accurate information of Russian Military. Especially in conflicts such as Hungary 1956, Czech 1968, Poland, DDR and son on.
The intelligence sharing were high since the world war.

[Alpha Kilo One]

You still don't get it. I want to talk about NOW, not THEN .......!

[bruinmedic]

Interesting update on this exercise, from the PLAAF perspective.
https://alert5.com/2019/12/10/plaaf-j-1 ... rike-2015/

TLDR version: PLAAF J-11 did better in WVR while RTAF JAS-39 did better in BVR. Again, take it with a grain of salt. We do not know how much each side was handcuffed to not reveal full capabilities.