Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Block60

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Stratofreighter
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Re: Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Blo

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Argentina's Jet Fighter Replacement Options Narrow
http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... ons-Narrow
But, according to Emilio Meneses, a defense analyst based at Santiago, the reasons Buenos Aires failed to take earlier measures to replace its old Mirages, which were procured both new and second-hand in the 1970s and ’80s, “are more related to local politics and fiscal finances than to any kind of foreign intervention.”
The senior military source in Buenos Aires said Spain started to offer its surplus Mirage F-1s in 2008, but Fernandez rejected the request of funding to procure those jet fighters.

The aircraft were offered again late in 2012, when the serviceability of the remaining older Mirages in the Argentine inventory had reached a critical level.

But the Argentine government failed to grant the funding to procure the Mirage F1s in time.

The Spanish capacity to provide airworthiness certification for the fighter jets, as required by the very strict Argentine regulations, ended.

The option to get such certification from France was very expensive,
as the French government and industry were more interested in persuading Argentina to take surplus Mirage 2000s instead.

As a result, the Spanish Mirage F-1s were discarded and negotiations to procure a number of refurbished Israel Aerospace Industries Kfir fighter jets started.

The negotiations suffered from a lack of support from Argentina’s higher levels of government, and the Air Force also had some misgivings about the aging Israeli machines.
As result of both, the negotiations stalled.

As for what may happen now, the local military source pointed out that France has had a long-standing interest to sell some of its used Mirage 2000s,
which are modern enough and by being single-engine fulfills one of the basic requirements of the Argentine Air Force.

The source also underlined that the Air Force prefers Western aircraft,
but would be willing to consider a Russian option if the West doesn’t provide a solution.

A Russian solution would be financially convenient for cash-strapped Argentina,
as President Vladimir Putin,
who made an official visit to Buenos Aires last September,
offered to accept beef, wheat and other food goods as payment for military equipment.

The China Option
Yet some analysts believe there is another path.

Analysts such as author and former air commodore Kaiser Tufail said China’s FC-1/JF-17 is well-suited to Argentina’s operational requirements when considering acquisition and operating costs, as well as an increasing range of advanced weaponry.

“I believe that, given Argentina’s serious financial troubles, the FC-1/JF-17 would be just the right choice,” he said.
“Despite the aircraft being short-legged, it is cheap and can be bought in large numbers.”

Chinese officials reportedly offered the FC-1 to Argentina last year at the Paris Air Show,
and even offered an option of local assembly,
but the Argentineans were apparently more tempted by offers of surplus Mirage F-1s from France and Spain respectively,
and also an Israeli offer of Kfir Block 60s, before these options fell out of favor.
Airnieuws stopped, update FokkerNews.nl April-2024
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Re: Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Blo

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http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /30247999/
3:52 p.m. EDT July 25, 2015

BUENOS AIRES — After considering and discarding :!: the procurement of Chinese/Pakistani-built JF-17s and Saab Gripen NG fighter jets to replace its fleet of Mirage combat aircraft, Argentine authorities are now negotiating the purchase of a batch of second-hand, refurbished Israeli-built Kfirs,
local military sources here told Defense News.

The Argentine Air Force is heavily pressed by the need to replace its older Mirage aircraft, which are the only higher performance machines in its inventory.

Those aircraft should have been replaced around 2002, but fiscal and political difficulties prevented a purchase.

With their replacement overdue, the Mirages today are not only technically obsolete and diminishing in total numbers and operational availability — fewer than 10 are in the flight line — but they are becoming increasingly expensive to maintain and operate.

Argentina Air Force officials have been interested in the Kfir for several years,
but it was at the 2013 Paris Air Show that delegates met officials of Chengdu Aircraft Corp. and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, the Chinese-Pakistani partnership that produces the JF-17 fighter jet,
the sources said.

The Chinese-built machines were of interest to Argentina because of their relatively low cost and the possibility of being locally assembled at the Fabrica Argentina de Aviones, the former FMA industrial plant at Cordoba.

Using Chinese-supplied components at the beginning, the local assembly offered the possibility of locally manufactured parts at a later stage,
opening the way to licensed production and even the development of a version specially tailored to Argentina’s requirements.

Negotiations for the acquisition and assembly of the JF-17 in Argentina started soon but the increasing demands by Argentina for Western avionics and modifications increased the cost of the aircraft. :|

The integration work needed to accommodate the new avionics also delayed the process and in May 2015,
after almost two years of negotiations,
the Argentine authorities discarded the JF-17.

The procurement of the Saab Gripen NG, proposed by the Brazilian government and to come from Brazil’s future assembly line, had also been considered in parallel with the JF-17.

According to the military sources consulted by Defense News in Buenos Aires, the Gripen NG was a more interesting option to the Argentine Air Force than the JF-17.

But in late 2014, the UK government, concerned by a potentially bigger threat to the Falkland Islands, leaked to the media that it would veto :twisted: the transfer to Argentina of any Gripen component that is British made or designed.

The Gripen NG was not immediately discarded by Buenos Aires because after a request from the Brazilian authorities, who were eager to sell the jet to Argentina, Saab agreed to explore the feasibility and cost of replacing the British components in the aircraft with non-British equivalents.

The replacement of components was found technically feasible,
but it was going to require a long and expensive modification of the airframe,
as well as integration and testing of the replacement components.
The higher cost for these modifications was more than the Argentine authorities were willing to pay, so they also discarded Gripen.

The only solution currently under consideration now is purchasing second-hand Kfirs.

To that purpose, the Argentine Air Force’s chief of materiel, Gen. Exequiel Gil, held several meetings during June's Paris Airshow with officials from Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) as well as from other companies that would be involved in an eventual Kfir deal, according to a source close to the issue.

Eliana Fishler, vice president for media relations at IAI, said, "it is IAI's policy not to disclose any details regarding deals in process."

The Argentine Air Force wants to acquire up to 18 Kfirs as a short-term solution to cover its requirement for higher performance combat aircraft over 10-12 years, local military sources explained.

“It is what the country can afford and can get at this moment. … But it will also mean that the search for a new solution, that hopefully would be a long-term one, will have to start in eight years,” one of the sources said.

“As by then, Argentina will probably be facing the need to replace its A-4AR Fighting Hawk attack bombers,
there will be a requirement for at least 36 advanced, new generation multirole fighter jets,” the source concluded.
Airnieuws stopped, update FokkerNews.nl April-2024
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Re: Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Blo

Post by nils »

would make more sence to buy the Chinese FC-1/JF-17 :?

the Kfir, although equiped with modern avionics, is largely obsolete at this time.
if they were to buy those, they will be concidered antiques in about 10 years time, the aircrafts design is almost 50 years old and it doesnt even have Fly By Wire.

the Chinese offer would be more cost effective in the long run and can serve for up to 30 years and maybe more.
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Re: Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Blo

Post by FredL »

And what about the ex-spanish Mirages F-1 ?
Did Argentine drop the plan to buy about 14 of them ?
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Re: Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Blo

Post by ehusmann »

nils wrote:would make more sence to buy the Chinese FC-1/JF-17 :?

the Kfir, although equiped with modern avionics, is largely obsolete at this time.
And the JF-17 is already obsolete... Newer, yes, more advanced, certainly not.

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Re: Argentina: Mirage retirement in 2015-16,eyes on Kfir Blo

Post by frank kramer »

FredL wrote:And what about the ex-spanish Mirages F-1 ?
Did Argentine drop the plan to buy about 14 of them ?
Yes, last year they ditched that plan because they couldn't reach an agreement with Spain as to which country would pay for the cost of the necessary overhaul for these aircraft.
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